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tv   Piers Morgan Live  CNN  July 31, 2013 9:00pm-10:01pm PDT

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ariel castro in court tomorrow after saying this just four days ago. >> my addiction to porpography and my sexual problem has really taken a toll on my mind. >> could anything he says take my difference? plus, george zimmerman stopped by police with a gun. also, the latest on this arkansas escaped prisoner still on the run. o.j. simpson's courtroom victory. i'm talk to kim goldman. plus, a man who spent his life on the wrong side of the law.
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>> yeah, that's right. you remember all the counts of more than 900 counts that ariel castro faced and they were specific with the dates. we're learning now that prosecutors actually used these women's diaries to help them document all the different charges. according to these documents that the prosecutor's office released today, the women over the past ten years have got through their time and captivity by keeping these diaries by
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writing about the abuse they experienced, by writing about their dreams of getting out some day and seeing their families, writing about being locked in f could be seeing some physical evidence as well as photos. it is supposed to be pretty ugly tomorrow with some of the evidence that we could be seeing and very dramatic proceeding tomorrow. >> despite all of this, you spoke to his sister, who paints a very different picture of him and thinks the truth will come out. >> i did. we know now that castro is expected to speak in court tomorrow. that's according to his attorney and we are hearing from his sister he will be explaining his life and perhaps giving another side of the ariel castro that we know from all of the disturbing details we have learned about. we know that he could be making
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an apology. that's according to castro's attorney. that he could be remorseful. for the first time we heard him in court. we could be seeing more of that tomorrow. he will be working on what he will say. and he said it is not overly preplanned. it could be a lengthy statement from castro tomorrow. >> do we expect the victims to either attend or make a statement themselves? >> pier, i'm learning from sources that one of the three victims will actually be making a statement here tomorrow, an impact statement. i should say she will likely make a statement. of course she could change her mind between now and then and she has ever right to do so and we hear from sources that will be michelle knight and it could be surprising to some because michelle knight experienced the worst abuse over the past ten years according to police reports and sources but this could be empowering and therapeutic for her to go up and make an impact statement and face her captor head on.
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we will have to wait and see if that happens. other two women are expect to be represented by family members tomorrow. it is expected to be a long day, at least a few hours long and very dramatic. >> in the end, we don't expect he will receive anything other than a very, very lengthy prison sentence and unlikely to ever come out again, right? >> right. this is not discretionary. he agreed that -- to the life in prison without parole, plus 1,000 years. so that's not going to change. basically what the sentencing is tomorrow, piers, is a way to put it on the record. put the charges that he is facing on the record. so that there is no way that he could ever leave prison ever again. his fate is pretty much set in stone at this point it. >> will be a fascinating day tomorrow, thank you very much indeed. now i want to bring in the report who are covered the case for nine years, inside of gina
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dejesus house. weekend anchor of woio in cleveland. welcome back to the show. >> thank you. >> a big day tomorrow. a day of potential closure. this maybe the last we see of ariel castro once he is sent to jail. what's the family reaction? you have been close to dejesus. what's their reaction to this? >> over the weekend, felix dejesus, gina's dad was doing a walk he's done every year trying to find victims who have been kidnapped, who are missing. he was on his walk and asked about the sentencing is coming up. how do you feel? and he basically said my family needs to heal. we need to heal. we need to move on. we need to bond as a family. nancy, gina's mom, has always told me she forgives him, but he does deserve to be punished. obviously they are looking for some closure in this case. >> when you read the detail of these documents that have come
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out, obviously much of it we knew in broad brush strokes. when you actually read the detail. i spent a half hour earlier reading it. it is unbelievably depraved and repulsive. these women went through the most appalling ordeal for a decade or more. it's very, very difficult to see how they could make any kind of quick recovery from this. >> if you went to the last part of the document there was a doctor that said all three women were in good spirits, they were healing. that it will be a long process but he couldn't believe how courageous they were. when i read the document i was sick to my stomach. when gina first disappeared her mother said my daughter would never run away or get in the car with a stranger. that somebody who knew her took her and you read this and clearly she got in a car with a family friend. just like the mom predicted.
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>> from what you know from gina's side and her family and what you have heard of the others, do any of these young women -- who have been through this awful ordeal, have any sense of what they call the stockholm syndrome where they feel a strange affection to their character? >> if you listen to any of the court hearsinings from last wee the prosecutor did come out and say there were some stockholm syndrome and in the report released today the doctor says he believes all three girls are experiencing. that on the other hand, i know gina has and credible family with a huge support system. so does amanda berry. michelle knight, she's been incredible through all of this, and clearly she has a journey by herself. i believe the other two families will be assisting her. so if they are suffering that, i don't doubt it will take a while
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to get through it. but they would be okay because of the support system that they have. >> there's a statement, actually a handwritten note from michelle knight to the lead investigator, i think it is. dear commander, officers and staff you don't know how much time appreciate your work collecting cards and gifts for me and the other girls. i'm overwhelmed by the thoughts and prayers from complete strangers. life is tough but i'm tougher and she does a quote. when the caterpillar thought the world was over she became a butterfly. very moving letter there. >> to think we don't know about michelle knight we never knew she was missing. of course we knew gina was missing because her mor kept searching and of course amanda berry's mother kept searching but she later died. michelle's family was never searching for her. in this report, it says, incredibly, she -- i don't know if it was the glue, but she was the one doing the doctoring and
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if gina was getting in trouble she was stepping in to protect her. she became almost their protector. so she is an amazing woman and resilient to all ends. >> she also, from those documents it seems, may well have saved the life of af mmand berry's young baby. >> you are welcome. a daring jailbreak caught on tape. derek es stel was held in the garland county detention center in arkansas on charges of aggravated robbery, burglary, theft, breaking and entering and not surprising fleeing. he made his escape is on the run tonight. police say he is armed, dangerous and aggressive. joining us is a man who said he escaped from prison three times. he is a retired cat blamplt michael hughes, what did you make of this video when you saw it? >> well, i believe the deputy made a vital mistake.
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this guy was a violent felon. he should not have been left alone. he should not have been crouching where the deputy couldn't see him. he should have been standing up, facing the wall and should have had shackles on. it was an opportunity and he knew. this guy knew there was a security breach here. so he had planned this. that wasn't a telephone call to call somebody. it was in that position to get out as quick as he could. >> it seems quite extraordinary. you have this guy who they are describing as extremely dangerous. there he is, sitting there, casually on the phone. a couple of feet from his desk, which he can just dive straight over. it was a most extraordinary breach of security. one you would never imagine would be possible in these places. >> what happens is they get to be friends with the guards. they will say to the guard, can i use this phone instead of going back, and the guard will let them. i think that is what happened here. the guard let him use the phone, being a nice guy.
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probably just got done with a visit or seeing his attorney. he was on his way back. he knew he'd get out. he should have had shackles on, piers. he was a violent criminal, he was arrested for aggravated battery. what was he doing in that area with one guard, no shackles. he should have been standing, looking at the wall while talking. >> a question about ariel castro, what kind of life will he face in prison given the scale of his behavior? oh, my prediction there will be a conspiracy within the inmates to get him. it will be hard to get him because he will be in solitaire confinement, lock up. he will be 23 hours a day in a cell and out. where they are going to get him and where they get most people they can't get to is poison. a lot of people -- the person that gets castro will be the hero in jail. i'm not a violent person. but if i had the opportunity and i saw castro in prison i would
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be on him real quick. >> michael hughes, thank you very much. george zimmerman is back in the news tonight. the man found not guilty in the death of trayvon martin is stopped for speeding in northern texas and he had a gun with him. police in forney, texas, released dash cam video of the incident. look at this. >> i'm going to go back and check you routinely. the reason you stopped is because of your speed. i want you to slow down a little bit for me and as long as you don't have any warrants you will be cut loose with a warrant. take it easy. shut your glove compartment and don't load your firearm, okay. >> zimmerman family released a statement saying, i quote, our family receives innumerable death thefts on a daily basis. we will continue to take our security and privacy seriously and go to great lengths to protect our safety in cord nance to the law. despite the truth coming to
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light in. misinformation and speculation continues to put us all at risk, especially george, speculation of families whereabouts is irresponsible and counterproductive. more of this later in the show. when we come back, another big crime story. a courtroom victory for o.j. simpson. why ron goldman's sister kim says it's unsettling. if there was a pill to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin dedicated to your eyes, from bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. ocuvite is uniquely formulated to help protect your eye health. now that's a pill worth taking. [ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi. an eye vitamin and multivitamin in one. and now there's ocuvite eye + multi.
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joining us now. what's your reaction to this? obviously o.j. simpson was facing a long time behind bars. now he will be out within four years. >> yeah. well, we always knew the option of parole was coming. i think i just wasn't prepared. the reality is different than the dreaming of it. you know, this is due process. as much as i would love to see him rot away in there, that may not be what happens. it's hard to hear his voice. it's hard to see him on the screen and know he could be walking amongest us again in a couple of years. >> does that make you feel fearful to you and your family? do you see him as a potential danger and threat to you? >> not in a physical way. i never really had any feeling of danger from him. it's really more the emotional torment of him being able to
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cause as much ruckus and chaos as he does by his celebrity and high-profile component of our case. every move he makes garners media attention. it's that kind of emotional torment that is a stressor for us. >> the nevada parole board said in a statement it reached its decisions on simpson's institutional conduct, participation in programs, lack of prior conviction history and he has consecutive sentences yet to serve. they call him a model inhamate. how did you feel when you heard that description? >> i guess the bailiffs are doing a good job in the correctional facility in that he is not able to commit more crimes. i always imagined he as being the mayor of the jail and it's bugged me but i don't know. i guess if that is part of the criteria to determine if somebody is eligible for parole than that is what it is. i have to respect and trust the judgment of the parole board but
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emotionally it doesn't make me happy. >> we had a report about ariel castro that is this appalling kidnapper holding these women captive so long. very different story than you have been involved. but the similarity is how do you get over any kind of horror or atrocity. what advice would you give these women who have been through a decade of hell like this? >> listen, i was getting teary eyed as you were reading the story, the letter from michelle knight. those women have a long road ahead of them. sounds like they are surrounded by love, support and resources. doing the victim impact statement is incredibly important and powerful. i'm jealous i never had the opportunity to do that. but they forever will be connected with ariel castro. as many time he is brought up in the news it will be a reminder to them. i hope they find comfort in nothing the country is supporting them. victims and survivors go through
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this son a daily basis. we have to be sensitive to wa we go through on a daily basis and there's no way to know how it will impact our daily being. so -- >> if you have been able to do a victim statement to o.j. simpson, what would you have said to him? >> oh, you would have to bleep me for the next 45 minutes. we wrote a book, our family, a handful of years ago "his name is ron" and each of us wrote what we would have said in a victim impact statement if pe we had been given a chance. he destroyed our life and he took my brother's future and his hopes and dreams that evidence he was entitled too and that changed the landscape of our family and i wish him nothing good and hate him for that. if he is granted parole i hope he lays low and stops committing crimes, but if he does i hope they lock him back up. until then we will watch the clock and try to keep our heads
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down and focus on the important things which are victims' issues and doing good work in theed a vokcy world. >> thank you for joining me. >> thank you, piers. coming up, the top-secret program the capture your ever move on-line. we broke the story today. we are joined next.
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i have the ability to wiretap
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you. >> edward snoek snowden speaking to the guardian. a new program could back up his claim. it allows them to search e-mail, browsing history of users without prior authorization and we are joined now. another bombshell revelation one you could argue could have caused even more than the original stories. why is it is so serous. tell me about it in a simple way that explains why you think this is a serious situation. >> first of all, piers, the databases that this program accesses is storying 40 billion internet records every 30 days especially trying to store in to systems all e-mails on-line chats, internet browsing it can get its hands on. an incredible power.
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on top of that the program is designed to collect nearly everything a user does on the internet. it allows an analyst sitting at his or her desk with no oversight, nobody watching over their shoulder enter an e-mail, ip address, use key words and pull up a content of e-mails, people's browsing history, what websitest websites they have gone to, what google searches they have entered, what microsoft word documents they have sent. the entire range of activities that people engage in on the internet. it's intended to be a you big kwitous spying tool. and that's what it is constructed in to. >> i want to play what jay carney said about this in today's briefing. >> allegations of widespread unchecked analysis of data is false. it is limited to those personnel who require access for their assigned tasks. there are multiple technical manual, supervisory checks and
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balances within the system to prevent those who don't have access from achieving that access. >> i suppose my reaction to that when i heard it is it is very well but edward snowden wasn't exactly high ranking and he managed to easily access this stuff. almost by default you would say that can't be true. must be loads of people that can access this stuff. >> right. edward snowden was not only able to access it he was authorized to access it. he was trained to use the program which is why he had the documents he was able to give us and tell us about the program and his experiences with it. you are talking about thousands of people. not just people employed directly for the nsa but people employed at private contractors that are deployed to the nsa like mr. snowden. they can sit at their desk and there is not even a supervisor within the nsa before the process looks at what they are doing let alone a court which
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means they are free to engage in all kinds of searches. there are legal limits of what they can do when it involves a u.s. person. although a lot of u.s. persons communications are in these databases. there is no technological restraint or after the fact robust auditing process and there's all kinds of evidence emerging because of disclosures of abuse. there's a lot of proof that if you allow surveillance without limits it will be wildly abused and i think that's why even in washington these stories are making such an impact. >> i want to bring in james risen, a journalist with the new york times and knows all about questions of the nsa and freedom of the press. you can't discuss specifics of the ongoing case and senior legal analyst jeffrey toobin. james risen, what do you make of his latest exposure by edward
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snowden in terms of the kind of program we are talking about. >> it is an interesting story and adds to a mosaic that has developed that shows the extent of the nsa's growth as kind of the infrastructure of the surveillance state that's grown really since 9/11. i think this is an extension of what began under the bush administration and codeified. and you are seeing growth in all directions of the exploitation of what they call in silicon valley big data. >> jeffrey toobin, how shocked should people be? on the one hand, the public will go this is outrageous. at the same time anyone's wallet they bring up their credit cards, shopping details, anything on-line. if you think of it you are
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already giving up a lot of information that we should be shocked about now. >> and things are read. if i send you a gmail from my personal account to your personal account and i say let's play golf this weekend. google will read that e-mail and try to sell me golf clubs. so, you know. >> automatically. >> automatically. a lot of what is going on is that kind of -- >> the difference here, though, is you have authorized analysts, according to glenn green wald, thousand potentially who can do more than that. >> i'd like to ask glenn a question about this program. is this for just domestic e-mails or international e-mails or both? >> the reason is under the law in order for the nsa to eavesdrop, to target an american citizen for surveillance they need to go to the court and get approval and they always give it. they are a rubber stamp in
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court. when an american citizen talks to somebody outside of the united states, those e-mails, telephone calls and activity is accessible by the nsa without a warrant. on top of that the nsa makes mistakes all the time. it is difficult to know the national origin of communication. all kinds of domestic calls get put in to this database as well. as the aclu's said, huge amounts of communication are swept up in what the nsa calls foreign surveillance. >> this is an important clarification that this is primarily targeted at international e-mails, not purely domestic e-mails. as glenn points out, there maybe mistakes, a lot of excess. >> we have to trust people here, right? we have to trust thousands of people they are not going to abuse it. edward snowden some would say abused it and others said blew the whistle but he had access it
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to. and somebody with a malicious mind could cause serious damage, jeffr jeffrey. >> you can't separate out domestic from international that cleanly. that's one of the kind of statements that the obama administration has made repeatedly that they can make these clean divides. that's just not true. >> what was interesting today, i think is james clapper released three previously classified documents about the government's programs. that to me says they are moving to a more transparent world and the only reason they are doing that is because of edward snowden and glenn greenwald. >> it is certainly true that there has been public discussion of this and that's a good thing. my hat's off to glenn for investigative reporting.
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i think that edward snowden is a criminal and should not have done what he did. i think this discussion -- >> well, we wouldn't be having this discussion if it wasn't for him. >> that's true. why do you think -- that's the thing i don't understand about the climate in washington these days is that people want to have debates on television and elsewhere but then you want to throw the people that start the debates in jail. >> you have been involved in this a long time. here's the dilemma i face. as a journalist all my life, i'm looking at this and thinking this is brilliant investigative i have journalism by glenn. when it comes to edward snowden, i'm asking where does the line get drawn? what you can't have is a license for every person who has access or authorization to classified material spewing it in to the public either on a women. you can -- on a whim.
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you can't have that. >> which part do you not want to talk about. which document that has come out don't you want to talk about. >> i suppose it is the specifics of the programs. do you feel comfort, as an american citizen, that the enemy potentially knows too much about what the american government can and can't do? >> i can tell you, i have been an investigative reporter a long time and almost always the government says when you write a story it's going to cause damage. then they can never back it up. they say that about everything. it's like the boy who cried wolf. it's getting old. >> piers, can i address that? >> yeah, glenn. >> let me say one word about mr. snowden. there are ways if you have access to classified information that you could spew it out in to the ether. he could have uploaded in mass, passed it to a foreign gorvegts given it to wikileaks and ask them to publish it all.
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he did none of that. he came to established media organizations and said be extremely careful and judicious. go through these documents publish only what is in the public good and withhold the information that could cause harm than is what we have done. >> he has gone to china and russia. two of the most repressive countries in the world and you don't think they have access to that material? he kept it secret from them. >> they don't. he reason he had to go to russia and china because the united states is filled with jeffrey toobins who want to take people who come forward andening bring transparency to the government and throw them in to a cage for decades. >> and he wants to go to china and he wants to go to china and russia -- >> hong kong. hong kong. >> oh, right. which is independent of china. come on. come on, glenn. >> the reason he is there is not because he thinks they are
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beacons of freedom. he is there because as daniel elsburg said in the "washington post" two weeks ago the united states is no longer a safe place for whistle-blowers and therefore, he was right to leave the united states because it was the only way he could participate in the debate he started and avoid persecution in the united states. >> he final word to james risen here. i would say to you this. is there a limit to what kind of material people with the kind of access edward snowden had should be allowed to put out there before it crosses a line? >> of course. there's always limits on that. that's one of the things you do as a reporter, as glenn was just discussing is you kind of make those decision as you go along. all i'm trying to say is that the government always likes to say that huge national, national
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security damage is being done then they can never really prove that. the republic has lasted for over 200 years with a free press. it's just -- you know, all i know is that every time i've done stories like this they say that i've caused enormous damage to the country, and then nothing happens. >> jay risen, jeffrey toobin and glenn greenwald, thank you very much indeed. coming up next, the nixon footage hasn't been seen in 40 years. tonight i will talk to the other nixon, the president's youngest brother ed. he is joining me next. the chevy malibu offers an impressive epa estimated 34 mpg highway... and during chevy's model year-end event
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>> i knew my place. it really reflected a lot about richard nixon, the degree to which he wanted things controlled. >> a documentary airs tomorrow night. the air uses super 8 movie shot by richard nixon's top aides. joining me is ed nixon his youngest surviving brother. thank you for joining me. i watched this documentary and was riveted by it but nowhere near as close to the action as you were. what is your reaction to having
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seen it? >> the film that we see tomorrow night it's a good collection of movies that were easily obtained from the national archives, and, you know, what you have done to put it together with annie lane, she was putting things in there that really shouldn't have been, but there's a lot of footage there that you can draw your own conclusions. my own view is that goes to show the actual factors that occurred candid as they were, and then you fill in commentary and what not to make a story of it. what i'm really interested in is the story that's still coming out and it's not yet finished, and i'm thinking it will overtake anybody's effort to do
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a documentary of this sort that this appears to be. i want to compliment you on trying to get this out there because it is a lot of excellent candid footage and a lot of scenes i've never seen, but when you come right down to it, the sen t centennials we are celebrating this year is most important to me. nixon was born in january 9th of this year and he was hardly covered by anyone there except that we did get some good shots. meanwhile, though, i'm looking at your documentary "our nixon" and i'm not sure it is ours. my nixon is completely different, of course. >> tell me. i mentioned this, ed, you are 17 years younger than your brother richard. >> correct. >> what do you think is the biggest misconception of him that maybe persists to this day, given your knowledge of him. >> well, for the most part right
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now, i see most of what's been told about richard nixon has been with a prejudice, going through a filter. and these days -- today i watched c-span to see what the news is and then i listen to the people that try to filter what you hear and i smile. because it's really good to check the real facts from the eyewitness rather than to jump to a conclusion that somebody has drawn up. >> tell me what you personally think the real richard nixon was like, compared, perhaps, to the perceived image of him these days. >> he was a good humored mentor to me. he was really my teacher. when you think of it i had two fathers and another one that came along with it with my brother don. he was always interested in everyone's opinion. listen, listen and then think about it and then respond with
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something appropriate to what we needed to hear. my whole life was influenced by richard nixon from the time i was 2 years old on when i can remember all of that. i can't get away from the notion that i wrote in my book that so much has been missed because you haven't paid any attention, even the great historian that wrote a three-volume biography of richard nixon never interviewed anybody in the family. that's not the way to do a biography. so i look for the facts from the real people and then we get in to the interpretations that each should be making for his own believes. >> one of the most candid interviews he ever gave is of course to david frost and my british interviewing colleague and david frost secured this famous apology to the american people. did richard ever privately apologize to you, as his brother, for what he had done?
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>> he didn't need to. for me, he did what he was called to do president of the united states and leader of the free world really. and he did his best. he laid everything he had in to it. when you think about what he didn't get to complete because of the nonsense that occurred in 1972 and '73, he wasn't able to complete it. well, we're setting out now to do the legacy on what were those dreams that he had? how many did he achieve? far more than many of his predecessors ever dreamed of doing with congress against him, and he got it done. he was praised for doing that. so take a look at it from the -- what do we say, british has talent. so does america in its own leadership. by the way, you were very goon good on that, you were a good entertainer. >> on "america's got talent." >> yeah.
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>> maybe we should have had the nixon family on. it would have been quite a good act. >> we would have been smiling. we would have made some smiles any way. >> ed nixon, great to talk to you. whatever people think of your brother, he was president of this great country and the documentary tomorrow is fascinating. as you say it contains much new material. so i urge everyone to watch it and make up their own mind but it has been great to talk to you. thank you very much. >> thank you. i will be looking for a real documentary one of these days. >> maybe i will make it with you. our nixon, which is a real documentary airs tomorrow night here on cnn at 9:00, but coming up, george zimmerman caught packing heat with the pedal to the metal. what was heing? that is and more on tonight's news. ing? that is and more on tonight's news. ting? that is and more on tonight's news. hiing? that is and more on tonight's news. ning? that is and more on tonight's news. king? that is and more on tonight's news. no, no, no! stop! humans. one day we're coming up with the theory of relativity,
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the next... not so much. but that's okay -- you're covered with great ideas like optional better car replacement from liberty mutual insurance. total your car and we give you the money to buy one a model year newer. learn about it at liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? it's hard to describe, because you have a numbness, but yet you have the pain like thousands of needles sticking in your foot. it was progressively getting worse, and at that point i knew i had to do something. once i started taking the lyrica the pain started subsiding. [ male announcer ] it's known that diabetes damages nerves. lyrica is fda approved to treat diabetic nerve pain. lyrica is not for everyone. it may cause serious allergic reactions or suicidal thoughts or actions. tell your doctor right away if you have these, new or worsening depression, or unusual changes in mood or behavior. or swelling, trouble breathing, rash, hives, blisters, changes in eyesight including blurry vision, muscle pain with fever, tired feeling,
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breaking news with george zimmerman and flashing lights in his rear-view mirror. republican pollster kristin, welcome back. >> thank you. >> let's talk george zimmerman.
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mark, i don't feel comfortable about george zimmerman wandering around aimlessly in his car with a loaded firearm. sorry, i don't. >> neither do i. i don't want him to carry anything. i don't want him to carry a pea shooter but she entitled to it? >> by law he is. >> if you end up killing an unarmed teenager, isn't the at least that happens that maybe you don't get back your gun. >> not if you are not found guilty. but then you are found guilty by proxy and the other part is if anyone may need self defense right now you could make the case it is george zimmerman. i'm not a george zimmerman fan. i think he is a individual but he was found not guilty and he is entitled to that firearm. >> are you comfortable with george zimmerman wandering around with this gun? >> i agree with mark. i think if anybody wants protection, like you mentioned earlier in the show his family says he's been receiving death threats and it's not like he was
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wearing it on him. it was in the glove compartment. not like he wants to be on the radar. >> i have a view about it but let's move on. more drug abuse obviously. pretty extraordinary if a-rod gets banned for life. >> it would be extraordinary but necessary, as well. a-rod has been lying from the beginning. everyone made fun of jose canseco and everything he has told us has been true. a-rod lied from the beginning. he had the opportunity to get in front of this thing like everybody did and instead he lied, lied, lied and obstructed justice from the mlb and would be out of a career now. >> kristin, are you a baseball fan. >> more of a football fan. but it is not as much as a stats
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kind of game as baseball is which is why this is a big issue and why it's important for people violating the rules to be out of the sport. >> i think everything changes when the punishment is so extreme that it deeters people from thinking of it. >> it is cheating. >> who are they cheating, 99% of the league is taking them. >> so what. >> who are you cheating. >> 99% of the people in central park are mugging. >> cheating means a competitive advantage. if everybody is doing it is not a competitive advantage. >> that's ridiculous. because they are all pumping steroids it is a level playing field. >> nonsense. so you would defend lance armstrong. >> he is hung out to dry as the exception when most cyclists. >> so he is a disgusting little
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cheat, because everybody else in the race, that's fine. what about the guy that was 17 which was the only one clean. >> he will sleep well at night. >> he stunned me. the fact that everybody else is cheating makes it not cheating. >> and the league sanked it. let's not forget about that. >> talk about why they ban the substances. they don't ban them because they make you great athletes but they are horrible for you and they want to dissuade athletes from doing horrible things to your body. >> why not ban tobacco, cigarettes and alcohol. >> why would anyone do those things as a way to get ahead. i don't think that alcohol is helping people win the tour de france. >> you said it is protecting their boefds. >> it is in combination with the athlete to do something destructive to their body in order to gain a competitive edge. >> it is against the rules and
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cheating. just because others are doing it doesn't make it less of a cheat. >> you are missing the point. >> you are missing the point. you are not going to persuade me. they are slimy little cheats and should be driven out of the sport. the documentary on nixon is tomorrow night. we will be back with jeff core win, with sharks, python and alligator. anderson cooper starts in a few moments. the postal service is critical to our economy.
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delivering mail, medicine and packages, yet they're closing thousands of offices, slashing service and want to layoff over 100,000 workers. the postal service is recording financial losses, but not for reasons you might think. the problem? a burden no other agency or company bears. a 2006 law that drains $5 billion a year from post office revenue while the postal service is forced to overpay billions more into federal accounts.
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tonight, keeping them honest. billing you for patients that don't exist. officials now finally going on record. also tonight, does the nsa have your number and web history and e-mails just a key stroke away? new reporting says yes and reveals the classified software they use to access that and more. we are joined by a lawmaker who's part of a bipart ann effort to rein in the agency. is there a belly ache in this bag? health officials say they have released an ugly bug in to contaminated bags of salad. why aren't they saying which brand to avoid? we have our series rehab racket. we have been telling yout